No need. Saw you working at church.Bet you won't get many requests either.It may prove you credible.
WHAT WAS THE POINT BEING MADE ABOUT THE RECEIPTS?
In answer to the question "What was the point being made about the receipts?" Laura was simply referring to a statement made in a previous comment about staff members kids not having to pay for college, and showing that it was not always that way.
NEWS flash i could make up receipts to, you will have to do better then that missy!
I would like them email is email@example.com
I LOVE this you are loosing all credibility now!!!1 You said all posts are welcome.'liar'2 You said 'STAY ON TOPIC' WE DID! Then you deleted my posts so that makes you a 'LIAR'
just a quick question from an observer: did the girl in question end up with that first boy or were her parents right about him?
convicting is it?
Daughter, did you say you could not forget what was done to you? I realize there is hurt, but we are exhorted to 'forget the past, and to press for the mark of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.' Phil 4:14. Then there is the matter of trials: "count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations (trials); Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience." James 1:2,3 And again, 'we know that all things work together for good to them that love God..."Romans 8:28. God has allowed trials in your life, and as the old bromide goes, do not allow them to make you bitter, but better. Christians really have no rights, Laura. We gave those up when we died to self. "He must increase, I must decrease." Father: and to all of us: 'be sure your sin will find you out.' What of your own parents? Did you treat them well, and as you would have your children do unto you? I do not know, being only a distant observer. What of Psalm 119:165, "Great peace have they that love thy law: and nothing shall offend them." The Lord has us over a barrel, doesn't He?Which is it? Do we love the law of the Lord, or do we deceive ourselves?Much more could be said, but too much has been said already.The pastor has at least been given pause for thought, the congregation may now examine themselves. Daughter, you have been heard. Isn't it time we all went home and made peace between us and the Lord? Look around and see that this dispensation as we know it is rapidly drawing to a close. Let us forget about naval gazing, being vindicated or in control. Let's be about the Father's business, no more a cause for others to stumble in these seemingly last few precious days we have left. Please shut down the site before more damage is done. Let us no more by our wretched example, turn others from the grace we claim to know. Eternity is a long time, let us consider poor lost souls around us. The rest of us need to remember this entire extended family in prayer. Readers, SHAME on you if you claim to be Christians. WHAT A DISGRACE for an unbeliever to read such vile comments from you! One day there will be silence in heaven for one half of an hour. That will be the deadliest most terrifying silence while the world contemplates the error of its ways, but forever too late. Matthew 12:36 "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment." Time now for an end, and new beginnings.
I'm so glad that truth and relivance is dictated by a person the admits to choosing the way of the Transgressor.I hope this better get posted as it is on topic
if they would have trusted their ADULT daughter and let her make her own decisions (from her own free will) she would have (and obviously did) come to the same conclusion. after a certain age parents are there for encouragement and advice...Laura, I am praying for you, your family, my family... too many families broken by just one man... I really don't want more people to get hurt by him but if that's what it takes to see the truth? I pray that God intervenes and helps us all heal and the truth is revealed to everyone!
The only place I find in the Bible where a child is to leave father and mother is at marriage. Mark 10:7
to 5:21 and how much sin could she avoided if she would have obeyed her GOD given authority?!
talking about a Man becoming head of his own house, the relationship between man & wife (parents definitely should not be involved in that), not in reference to when children become adults. when the angel of the Lord came to Mary, he treated her like an adult not a child, did not mention her parents at all, did not even imply that their wishes were at all pertaining to her doing the will of God. She was NOT married at the time either... that is an example of one woman...Acts 16:14 in reference to Lydia with her own business.I'm sure Paul was not "still at home" through his entire ministry...that is without going into the bible's view on human laws, which by Canadian law Laura was an adult.
To February 8, 2011 5:37 PM Anonymous poster: I don't think Jesus's parents went everywhere with him - and he wasn't married.Also, please read John 9:18-23.Katherine Elias
This may help in your attempt to atain to a level of normalicy if there is infact such a thing. Find someone who has had it worse than you and help them up! I am not saying that you did/did not have it bad, but I know a few people who have had it a little worse than hearing a parent say "don't go there" or "don't date so and so"
My kids, living under my roof, are going to obey the rules of the home. If they don't like that, when they are of age, they can leave.Proverbs 13:15 ¶Good understanding giveth favour: but the way of transgressors is hard.
How is this blog drawing anyone closer to God? If this is not about perfection, and you have already forgiven your father, what is the main purpose? Do you enjoy being the center of all this attention? If the answer is no,than shut the blog down. According to your own comments on the blog profile it is about what God thinks of you and your service to Him. If you are right with God and have perfect peace in your situation, the freedom you now enjoy with your family and friends, why than would you not focus on that life and not on letting this blog be a channel for hate? People you dont know, people that dont know your father, what good comes from this? What does God think?
Why do you not get over the fact that you are happy:)
Absalom was an adult to, and he had followers. Was he right? 2Sam 15:12 And Absalom sent for Ahithophel the Gilonite, David’s counsellor, from his city, even from Giloh, while he offered sacrifices. And the conspiracy was strong; for the people increased continually with Absalom.
Ok well the reciepts, laura you will have to do better then that! You poor poor unforgiving BRAT!!! I hope you know you will have to answer for all this!
1Sam 15:23 (AV) For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king. That was told to an adult to:)
so for anyone paying attention we are almost at 48 hrs now since i was promised the email proof of why my family was dragged into this blog, and nothing yet. also the anonymous one still has yet to call me. so incase that person has a bad memory 204-362-2907. id like to talk. and for the original person who dragged me in here, the email is still firstname.lastname@example.orgThanksJason
Hey I just want to say I am 100% for you, Laura. Your experiences should not be shut up inside, but need to be exposed and called for what they are. I know several others who had somewhat the same experience as you, so if you would like to get in contact with them, drop me a line at email@example.comContinue following God as hard as you are, and He will always direct your paths! :-D (hugs)
He was rebelling against God not his parents. Context please. Anyone can rebel against God at any time in their life, that is not what we are debating. Laura was of age, living outside of her parents house, Earning her own money. She deserved to be treated like an adult, that is not what happened.
For all of you that keep telling Laura to shut down the blog site. You keep throwing scripture at her about stubborness, forgiveness and not having peace. Maybe all of you need to look into the mirror and see who is being stubborn and unforgiving. How many people have you hurt? How many families have you broken up? How many homes have you destroyed by your own selfishness. Why? Because you want power over the people? You threaten, harass, make rude comments. Calling her names? Shame on you! Jesus was our example and never once did he force anyone to love him as you folks do. Never did he harass someone or make rude comments. One thing he did do was get very angry was his temple was used for corruption. Jesus died for all of us because he loves us, not because we follow a rule book made by man.So maybe all of you need to search your hearts and find the humility that is required to be the christian that God wants us to be. We are to be like children.
How we miss the truth, and are blinded by what we want to believe, and many must have a sharp knife to cut out the truth because we dont like it.
faith as a child, but not being children. Big difference. Jesus was angry when the temple, a holy place, was used for corruption. What about now, bitterness under the guise of forgiveness, speaking out to tell her story to "help"others? Sounds like rebels finding rebels.
Ok I would like it if all the post got put up Not just what laura wants! I know she is deleting a lot of post! Laura if you are not a LIAR then put them on!!
How much did the receipt book cost? or can you download those too?
Lifting you up in prayer Laura, and everyone else who knows this situation. I pray for wisdom and guidance as you continue to tell your story, I know it wont be easy. much love for everyone, praying you all continue to search the bible daily and do as God leads you. amen.its time for positivity, respectful debate and love.
If you don't like what she writes, why even read her blog?
Do you forget from 0 to 18yrs where are those receipts sweetie:-D
"He that soweth iniquity shall reap vanity: and the rod of his anger shall fail." Prov.22:8Blog isn't going where you wanted it to, is it? :) So much forgiveness on this site, its a pretty thick rod, don't you think? Must be getting heavy swing it, tired yet?:)
Laura Sorry you will not find any reciepts for your tuition because as a child of a staff member you only paid for room and board. Laura, if being a janitor at PVBC was such a hard job on weekends when your classmates helped you clean how much did you pay them? As i recall they did it out of the goodness of their hearts. If you are so right in what you are doing why do I hear all this bitterness from you and your supporters?
Laura, don't forget that you have freedom of speech. It doesn't matter if others agree with you, you have the right to express your thoughts and feelings.The rest of you Nazi's who wish for her to shut up should try it yourself sometime.
I'm just writing in response to the questions about the man Laura dated for 19 months. I am now is wife. We have been happily married for over 11 year. We have 5 wonderful children - ages 10 and under. The man her parents did not want her to date, went on to marry a girl from the States, and is now a pastor in BC.
For the record Laura,No one at PVBC hates you. Don't let comments on here lead you to think that. Everyone I know attending PVBC that is aware of the situation prayerfully keeps you and your family in heart.The frustration is coming out it in a few posters because of the generalization that all PVBC members are brainwashed or spiriutally too weak to break free from their Pastor's control. That is insulting and although many posters will jump on even this comment, I think this is a severe accusation. Especially considering that it has been years since some have attended. I have been to PVBC and know many people who go there and they are great testimonies for the Lord, and happily serving. One girl mentioned that her teacher that taught something wrong was not dealt with...an example of the Pastors mercy and patience. Pastor Sullivant is always very reluctant to hurt feelings, but as a Pastor there are times it becomes neccesary and then "the less you be loved for it" so to speak.Maybe some here were corrected for something... that can hurt, but it may have been neccessary if you look deep down. Most less conservative churches may be easier to attend in that way, but I don't think there is grounds for a cult here.Once again Laura, It is clear you lead a different life than the rest of your family, no reason to defame another belief. I don't think the seperation between you and your family is because of what you chose, but how you chose it. You need not bring down a whole congregation to do what you will.
I would just like to say that although i understand the hurts of leaving family and friends and such with leaving the PVBC, that my husband and i were SO grateful and happy to have found out the truth and the truth did set us free from the inevitable bondage we would have felt in the PVBC if we had continued there. the bible says "count it joy" when these things happen and we realize where we were and where we are now. this is not to demean anyone for the sorrow there can be with these situations but let us not forget that we are grounded in the Lord and not on man. (or we should be) we THANK GOD that we were brought out of the PVBC and set free in Christ. so let us PRAISE GOD (those of us who have seen the light) and PRAY for those who have not.
Wow, there is alot of animosity on here! Laura, I pray that you will continue to draw strength from the Lord and stick up for His Word. Remember, "our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."May the Holy Spirit continue to guide you in your life. If your story draws even one person to the Lord or strengthens someone's faith, it will be worth it. The Lord knows your heart. It doesn't matter what people think, only what God thinks. I leave you with Psalm 37 for encouragement.
This is all so very, very sad! I cannot believe the venom that is being spewed here! Christians should not behave this way. Let Laura tell her story and if you disagree that is fine. However remember who your Savior is when you leave a comment. Both sides have shown anger, bitterness and a lack of love. I read the blog and it speaks for itself. I did not get the impression that she was attacking but rather it seemed to me that she was just telling her story. If it would have been left at that I would have probably read this post,and moved on. My thoughts would have been that she was a child out of favor with her parents. Happens all the time. I probably wouldn’t have read the whole story but the comments made me curious enough to read the whole thing. I wanted to see what horrible thing this girl had done. The comments speak loudly about the church you attended and the people there. Those who have left are angry and bitter. Those who are there are very judgmental, critical and refuse to see the hurts that they have caused. (There are some exceptions on both sides of course.) I do not know Laura and I have never attended PVBC or even been to Manitoba for that matter. As a neutral onlooker I have to say that PVBC needs to take a close look at themselves. I think that most people who have left a church are normally angry with the church they left. The angry comments on that side are expected. But the comments from church members who are supposed to be in fellowship? In humility ask yourselves why you felt the need to attack, why even try to defend the actions of her father? God is in control and will deal with her if she is at fault. (I don’t mean kill her either...I’m talking about Holy Ghost conviction) God does not need your help. Y’all are downright mean! Now before I am attacked for being a liberal, ungodly, blah, blah, blah, I want to say for the record that I am a member of an independent Fundamental, KJBible believing Baptist Church. While I do not know both sides of this story (and do not need to know) it is the comments that say so much more than the blog does. Laura, I understand why you started this blog. Writing your story can be part of your healing process. I do not believe that the blog itself has been hurtful to the cause of Christ. The comments from church members (past and present) have certainly shed a light on the church you left. (Not all IFBC are the same and I hope you know that.) The comments, I believe, do hurt the cause of Christ. I hope you will prayerfully consider shutting this down. If not the blog, then perhaps turning off the ability to comment for a while might be something to consider. M.M.T
What we have here is the classic battle between Conservative an Liberal Christianity.Unfortunately when a liberal Christian leaves the conservative side they tend to accuse of dictatorship, control, bondage, and legalism etc. This can easily sway to slander and a bold level of feeling like one is noble by freeing others from their conservative beliefs.The conservatives, attacked for being high and mighty, controlled, too authority oriented, etc...get offended and harshly rebuke the liberal side.Basically if the liberals would leave well enough alone there could be peace, and if the conservatives would always keep their motives in check some offenses would be avoided. But not all, because the Word of God does indeed divide at valid points.If the conservative would continue on in love in spite of the criticism it would be more attractive to the world (worldly).If the liberal would not use their liberality so harshly against conservatives, there would be more peace.In the case of this family matter between Laura and her parents, its quite the same. I strongly believe that the struggle between these family members would be resolved by now if the liberal daughter would not have brought it to a church level instead of leaving it at a dis-like for her parents conservative ways. A daughter who didn't like her parents conservative ways can be addressed at some point by family members when feelings settle out.Now that this is a church/community level argument there is more to be dealt with.Laura, it is to bad things have gone so far, but you still can bring it to a level of family matters, by repenting of all church accusations and admitting a mere difference in opinion to your family's beliefs.You have to ask yourself, is this a matter of family or church? If you decide it is both and not able to be seperated from each other, then bringing own a church is really not the repsonsibility of people.Are the people that are on here equally as grieved over the other cults in the community? Then they are following you and your story, and so you must lead them in a manner you can live with here and in the here after. How great truly do you want your cause to be? The fight between conservative and liberal christianity will not stop, there will always be both. The fight of abuse etc....well, a famous preacher once said, that you must choose your battles wisely. Some things you die for, some you fight for, some you fuss over...then there is the stuff you leave to God.
Anonymous said... What we have here is the classic battle between Conservative and Liberal Christianity.So true.
To Tabitha Bartz FriesenTabitha Bartz Friesen I am so glad that you and Tim are doing well and that God has blessed your family.the only point that was should be pointed out is that Laura broke up with "The BOY" because he was not called to Africa. (at least that's what she told me right after it happend)Then she asked her parents not to let her date someone that was not called to Africa. Maybe her parents kept their word after all.
Glargh. This whole discussion reminds me of why I bailed on Christianity. John 13:35: By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.*snort* If it was just one small group of We Think We Have The Absolute God's Truth Way Up Here in Manitoba that acted like this, well, then it wouldn't be such a big deal. But this is over and over and over and over, ad nauseam, ad infinitum, for practically the last two thousand years. Someone sets himself up as an authority and you can't question that authority otherwise you're crossing God. Not only that, the Great Man and his followers will not just cut the questioner out of their lives as well (to show loyalty to the Great Man), but they'll show up to browbeat the questioner into submission as well. And, for the record, I've read the story Laura has posted here, and, frankly, it's appalling. PMS acts like so many other men who take power and exert it over his sheeplike followers, some of whom finally decide that they can't deal with being sheared over and over and over again and leave. (You can only take the metaphor so far.) Reading Laura's story makes me very glad yet again that my father, a conservative businessman, saw no difference between any of his children but exhorted us to go as far as we could in life. He did not seek the kind of control PMS asserts over his children. And, you know what? I'm middle-aged now, live five miles away from him and call him every night. When I talk to him tonight, I'm going to thank him again for being my Dad, because I know it could be just so much worse, here's yet another exhibit!
"...that they were wise .... that they would consider their latter end." Deu.32:29 Laura - My time at PVBC was thankfully short. Our paths crossed briefly. What you are doing is a very courageous thing. Victims of pastoral abuse frequently do not recover. Your case was much more severe than the others of us in that your pastor was also your father. I thank God that, you, the victim did not become the fatality. You will now undoubtedly come under intense attack - be careful that you respond in love. To the other victims, I pray this blog will help you to realize that you are not alone, and with the grace of God you can overcome. It is not and never was a question of your mental instability or your lack of spirituality. It was the fact you stood against one man's unbridled lust for power. For others, I pray you would consider your latter end. Is your latter end to deny godly parents, child, and grandchildren? Is your latter end to pray for another's death instead of helping them walk closer to God? . . . only because they would not turn total control of their lives over to a man. Is this your means to glorify God? I will not comment again on this blog. My prayers are with you.Dr. David Bartz
As a member of the PVBC, I loved the above post. So very true. So very wise. Both parties are at fault. I hope we can all come to see that. We need to check our hearts, and our motives.
"One man's unbridled lust for power"? Unbelievable. To quote the whole verse, Deuteronomy 32:29 says, "O that they were wise, that they understood this, that they would consider their latter end." I think the portion that you "conveniently" left out says it all.
Dr. Bartz, very well said, I completely agree!
I have to say that now that there is some mediation on this blog it is a lot easier to read and concentrate on the actual blog. It was starting to have a lot of animosity in it and I don't think that that is what the intention of the blog was in the first place. Laura you have come through so much and now it seems you are going to go through more, I pray that you have the strength and courage to continue telling us your story and I can't wait to hear the next chapter. Don't get sidetracked by all the hate here, for that may be there intention. The only proof you need is the proof in your heart. You know it's so easy to get caught up in the anger that's been written here, I have stopped myself many times from writing things that would add fuel to many people's fires. I am not here to do that. I'm so glad that you have not replied to any of the posts on here as it would only make there rage bigger. I know firsthand the heartache that a church can do to a family. It can bless them or tear them apart, it's not the words that are being preached but the people who are doing the preaching. Laura you have come so far and you have a wonderful family. Keep on smiling!Rachel
I am looking forward to seeing the end result as I am all for peaceful resolution. I do not believe all that I hear and only half of what I see! Thank you for making available your receipts to all who care to see! I don't know you or your dad but I feel strangely connected to your situation as I too struggle with being from a dysfunctional family unit looking for reconciliation. It is not out of your reach... you are a champion and I know that you will be strong to the end and be of good cheer, the end is near.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RgXC303Q5A&feature=relatedJenn
Ok i wasnt going to write on here but...I have read every comment that has been posted throughout Laura's Blog and it makes me sit here and cry that family is fighting with family..I was raised in a Christian home and was taught that family, if nothing at all you have each other..I myself unfortuatly lost my son 4yrs ago in an accident(he was 16yrs old)and I miss him everyday and would do pretty much anything if I could get him back, sigh.. no matter how many kids one person has they are all special(and different)...we are to love our children unconditionally just like Jesus loves us ....in my family we all go to different churchs and some not at all but I Love them all and do not judge any of them, we get together as often as we can or phone each other ...they have to make that decision on their own...Jesus loved everyone and associated with all he did not judge who they were or what they did, he just loved them...I know alot of what went on way back then and what is happening now .....those of you who are posting nasty things would YOU have the guts to say that to Laura or anyone else in person...and if you say yes, you can come to me and we will have a nice discussion at Timmies in Winkler over coffee I have no problem dicussing things in person...those of you who are not around our area come for a visit and we will talk.
My father used to tell me, "Do what you want,You are the man." I thought I had liberty, but I was in bondage. My new Father tells me not to lie, steal,lust,kill etc etc etc. Some call this bondage, I call it love. All I can say is life has sure been good since the God of Heaven adopted a unworthy worm. I did wander away from Him years ago. People "helped" me by saying, "You will love the "far country" the sights are something to behold." You know when I woke up in that pig pen, all my so called friends were gone. My clothes stunk and I did not look like a child of the King. You want to know what woke me up? It was a non believer who said," Jason, you are trying to fit in with us, but you will never be like us. He told me, "You are like that Bible guy in the boat, you should know him." I said,"Yeah, his name is Jonah" I'll never forget my co-worker's response,"Why don't you get out of here and save yourself and come back and save me?" I wandered in the wilderness for awhile yet and considered my "latter end." I decided to swallow my pride and go back to my Heavenly Father. You know, I barely got out a few words and then He hugged my neck and gave me a robe, a ring and put shoes on my feet. Oh yeah, the fatted calf still tastes good. Having considered my "latter end" I decided to call the pastor, who will never defend himself from slander,just to say sorry for believing "undocumented facts." You know this past year Me, my wife and four kids graduated from Bible College. It was a team effort. How did this happen? A pastor, his wife and the Lord's Church never quit praying for me. You know what is amazing? The pastor who many wrote off is still serving God,his wife encourages my wife regularly,and his kid's have a sweet spirit. What is the point of this one and only posting? It sure feels good to be HOME(God's will)We all need to really "consider our latter end" and go to our Heavenly Father and say sorry for.... We must all appear before the Judgment Seat of Christ. I made my bed, I laid in the pig pen and then I chose to walk towards real freedom and by God's grace, I am not looking back. I am genuinely praying for those who need repentance, restoration and release from the snare of Satan.
I agree with Roxane. We should love our children always.God LOVES us even when we make bad choices. He is alwaysthere for us. The family says they all love her but how do they SHOW their loveby “shunning” her? The Prodigal son ran away and lived a wicked life butwhen he returned his father welcomed him with open arms, much happiness and joy and celebration - NO QUESTIONS ASKED. He did not say Wait - before I even acknowledge your return you must first repent of your rebellion and seek my forgiveness. No - he just LOVED him. Laura, from what I can understand by reading herwords, is serving God, she is a believer and saved bythe blood of Jesus - she has not been living a wicked life away from Christ - what will happen when they all meet in heaven - will her family ignore her there too? Not possible.
Good point Feb. 9, 2011 10:38 A.M.I only wish my parents would've taken a stand and fought to keep me away from the wrong guy. I might would've avoided some horrible heartache and consequences. Please just keep this in mind when your children are even of legal age. They will thank you later in life even if it's not when they are 18 and "know everything." I look back now (even when I'm in my 30s) and wish with all my heart that my parents would've spoke up and fought for me. Maybe they weren't as strict as your parents but at least they should've spoke up and tried to protect me. I'm not saying your parents did everything right. They may have made mistakes. I know I've made plenty mistakes with my children already (I thought I was going to be a perfect mom). Oops..I've messed up already. I just think in my heart that your parents were just trying to protect you.
To Anonymous who said “Do you forget from 0 to 18yrs where are those receipts sweetie:-D”First of all - don’t call her sweetieSecond - so I suppose your child will pay you thousands of dollars for what you spent on them from age 0 - 18?What a stupid question.
forgiveness means letting go of your past~Gerald Jampolsky
More and more people care about religious tolerance as fewer and fewer care about religion. ~Alexander Chase
I hope anonymous @10:58 has never read an autobiography. Or if they have it better have been one where life was just happy and bliss all the time. We can't really know what Laura's motives are for writing this. Only she does. Another thing I've noticed is the anger from church and ex church members. Church people calling her a liar, and a brat while quoting bible verses. Doesn't look right to me. I'm wondering how many of these die hard supporters were there to witness what really happened. A witness in court wouldn't be counted credible if they were never there to witness anything. I'm not saying he did or didn't do the things Laura and others have said he's done. I'm just saying many people have lived long lives before their crimes were ever discovered. Or discovered at all. Just because he's a preacher and you've seen good things doesn't mean he's without sin. That's a dangerous pedestal to put anyone on. For you, and them, 'cause it's only a matter of time before they will disappoint you, or God may have to do something drastic to show you that He is God, not a man. I'm not discounting any of the good things the preacher has done. These are just my observations.
The shepherd does not command his sheep, he leads his sheep by example.PMS is not a shepherd, if you look at his leadership style, he is a dictator.Study the life of corrupt cult leader Jack Hyles (Hyles Anderson College where PMS graduated from) and you will better understand why PMS is the way he is.Jack Hyles trained many preacher boys and PMS was one of them. PMS is most likely doing exactly what he was trained to do, exactly how he was trained to do it.Ask yourself why Jack Hyles would send One Hundred Thousand dollars to PMS personally. PMS bragged about it over the pulpit that he paid the mortgage on the house on that corner property where PVBC sits now with some of that money.PMS is the smoothest preacher in town, but the problem is that he doesn't practice what he preaches.PMS would not want you to read anything by authors: Voyle Glover Esq. or Dr. Robert Sumner.http://www.amazon.com/Fundamental-Seduction-Jack-Hyles-Case/product-reviews/0962853186/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1http://www.biblicalevangelist.org/jack_hyles_chapter1.phpMake sure to read all 4 chapters.
um...you can be "religious" about mowing your lawn among other things. What I care about is "Christianity" - BIG difference! and what does that comment/statement have to do with this blog??
You missed the point, an attitude of thankfulness is all I was saying.
To Anonymous @February 10, 2011 2:21 PMWow, that really supports your case, one "bad" preacher giving 100 grand to another for the work of the ministry???? kinda shot yourself in the foot with that one didn't you. Just wait a little while I cook something up and put it on the web for you to read- cause surely everything you read online must be Gospel truth! I'll even put it on a letterhead if it makes you feel better. Maybe I'll fabricate something about "how gullible people are who have nothing better to do than to look online through other peoples cyber trash." Make sure you read all 10 chapters. BTW, Jerry Springer phoned and he wants his links back.
I love the fact that pastor Sullivant is called a dictator and only in it for the money. That money was given to him personally and what did he do? he used it to pay off the churches mortgage. That doesn't sound selfish to me.The more people stand against leadership the more they reveal their hearts, not hearts that are submissive to God, but that they will follow leadership as it suits their own wills.I wish people could understand what a pastor goes through.They go to a community to Preach the Gospel without reserve.Giving their time to counsel people trying to help them grow in Christ, only to have them stab them in the back for trying to control their lives, never charging for that time as other counseling professionals do.Look at the life of Moses he led the Children of Israel. Moses led as he was commanded by God Himself and the people still murmured against the leader God called to lead them. I wish people could hear themselves.
comparing a pastor to moses?? the more applicable analogy would be to a priest. Moses was picture of Jesus. amen to people hearing themselves...
One thing that you are missing is the sins of deception, stealing, lying, abuse of power, shunning and the list goes on. It's interesting that very few want to see the sin dealt with.
When your Dad prayed for you to die, did you understand it the wrong way and he actually meant "Die to self"?
HAHAHA are you kidding me? How do you even mistake praying "death over a child" with "dying to self"??
So many people all saying the same thing about someone even though most of them have never met each other must surely make it so! blah! There are a lot of people and groups mentioned in the New Testament that all swore Christ was a bad Person. And they ended up crucifying him! But alas, they were all correct because they had numbers and misery loves company in large numbers. Lame attempt at reason if there ever was one.
I'm so sick about hearing about our God of love and how He isnt judgemental and loves everybody! There is some truth to that, but what happened to the old fashioned preaching of fearing God and the wrath of God that will be poured out on the world. Just look at the story of Noah and the flood. What about the 7 year tribulation? Yes God loves everybody, but everyone does have to answer to God! Just be thankful we live in the age of grace!
Anonymous February 11, 2011 6:06PM Part of what makes the Bible credible (for those that are not Christians, looking for answers) is the fact that most of the 40 writers over the period of all those years HAD never met each other and all said the same thing. But you are not looking for truth. I still wonder why most of you are even here.
To Tiff - honey...open your bible (it's been awhile, eh?) and please give me scripture that supports the 7 year trib. Please. Give me even ONE verse.
Tiff: I believe we live in the age of grace too! But nobody should ever be afraid of the truth. Sit back and watch it unfold.PS. Good luck finding the 7 year tribulation in the BIBLE.
1 Cross2 Hands3 Nails=4given
Tiff:There is SOME truth to that? What God do you worship and adore? What God cried out on the cross saying "Tiffany, I'm dying for you because I love you" Fearing God doesn't mean being afraid. It means reverence. Once you get to know the God that shed his blood for you, you will feel very differently. The Lord is angry with the wicked every day. But He hurts with us because He LOVES us. Not to be rude about your opinion on the 7 year tribulation, but the others have a point. Good luck finding it in the bible.
Okay... Yes God did send His only son to die on the cross for our sins because He loves each and everyone of us. But it is still up to us to accept Him and His free gift of salvation. As for fearing God, we are to reverence Him, but we need to fear Him. Jeremiah talks about fearing God and trembling before Him. Do you think you tremble before out of reverence i think not! This thinking that God is only about love is what is turning us into lukewarm christians. We think that because God loves us no matter what which is true (He hates the sin, not the sinner) gives us an excuse to sin. About the 7 year tribulation....obviously you have not read the book of Revelation EVER!! its all throughout scripture. Either you're not reading the King James Version, but rather a version that minimizes the harshness of God's judgement or you just don't read your Bible. even if you don't agree with me on the tribulation, you agree with me on the account of Noah and the flood. And what about Sodom and Gomorrah...oh yeah i forgot that's not in the new versions either. The point of the matter is that:God does love us.We don't deserve His love.We need to realize that we are all sinners and accept His FREE gift of salvation. And when He comes back to take all those who have trusted Christ as their Saviour to Heaven, we will all stand and give account for everything we have done at the judgement Seat of Christ. And for all those who have not accepted Christ as their Saviour, after the 7 year tribulation, you will stand before the Great White Throne judgement and God will judge you and you will be cast into the Lake of Fire for all eternity. Why would a God of love do this you ask? its not God's fault..if you've heard the truth and choose not to accept it than you had your chance and chose your own destiny. 2 Peter 3:9
Tiff:The bible talks about Tribulation. Yes Revelation talks about Tribulation. I hold to the KJV only.What I asked YOU for was one verse that supports the 7 YEAR trib you speak of. Just because you've been taught it all your life doesn't mean it's biblical. Please, I'll ask you one more time, give me ONE verse, that supports your 7 year theory. That's all I ask for.God IS a God of love.Just so you know, as someone who has done extensive research on other bible versions, you should really check your facts before saying specific things against other versions (like what stories are in them) You make yourself an inaccurate addition to the thread. Just saying...
TO TIFF who says there are no Sodom & Gomorrah in the newer versions. By the way,there are excellent newer Bible versions that help to enlighten the hard-to-understand KJV parts.Genesis 19:24-25 (NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION, ©2010)24 Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the LORD out of the heavens. 25 Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, destroying all those living in the cities—and also the vegetation in the land.
Tiff you should quit while you're ahead. You sound like a complete ignoramous.
What is a non denominational church anyway?
Anon @ February 14, 2011 1:26 PM and Anon @ February 14, 2011 7:35 PMGenesis 19:24-25 (NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION, ©2010)What the world? A Bible that has copyright? So you can only copy how many words before you get nailed for copyright infringement or plagiarism. Now that for sure must be of God! We are to live by every Word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God (Mat 4:4), or till we run out of copyright cap space... which ever comes first.Perhaps you people study your preface before you attempt to discern doctrine.
Tiff-This is from the ESV, yet another version.Genesis 19:24 Then the Lord rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the Lord out of heaven.Where exactly do you get your information about other versions not having Sodom and Gomorrah in them? Maybe you should research what you say, BEFORE you say it. I believe the Bereans did that. Acts 17:10-11The brothers immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived they went into the Jewish synagogue. Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.
Pro 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. Pro 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.
TiffI still don't have the verse I asked for about the 7 year trib. Think of it as a bible study.
It sucks being cornered, eh, Tiff??1 Cor 3:18 "Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise."
I'm sorry about my previous post. i did not think before writing. i posted the reply purely out of the flesh instead of praying about what to write first. What i said about the other versions i know is not true, even though they are still not correct in most areas.I have chosen to not take part in the lengthy discussions any farther. i think we all need to realize that this blog is not for bashing the Pembina Valley Baptist Church, but rather for Laura telling her side of the story whether you believe it or not. Yes, those of you who support Pastor Sullivant(as i do) have a right to post your opinions and stand up for Him, but you might carefully consider how all you are doing is contributing to the fire and not helping anyone in the process. You cannot teach someone who does not want to hear what you have to say in the first place. As i can speak from experience, you can voice your opinion when asked, but you are just wasting your breath and your time by giving it because they have already made up their minds in what they want to believe. Instead why don't you spend the time on your knees praying for them as God is the only one who can change their hearts and minds.Pro 12:12 The wicked desireth the net of evil men: but the root of the righteous yieldeth fruit. Pro 12:13 The wicked is snared by the transgression of his lips: but the just shall come out of trouble. Pro 12:14 A man shall be satisfied with good by the fruit of his mouth: and the recompence of a man's hands shall be rendered unto him. Pro 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise. Pro 12:16 A fool's wrath is presently known: but a prudent man covereth shame. Pro 12:17 He that speaketh truth sheweth forth righteousness: but a false witness deceit. Pro 12:18 There is that speaketh like the piercings of a sword: but the tongue of the wise is health. Pro 12:19 The lip of truth shall be established for ever: but a lying tongue is but for a moment. Pro 12:20 Deceit is in the heart of them that imagine evil: but to the counsellors of peace is joy. Pro 12:21 There shall no evil happen to the just: but the wicked shall be filled with mischief. Pro 12:22 Lying lips are abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly are his delight. Pro 12:23 A prudent man concealeth knowledge: but the heart of fools proclaimeth foolishness. Pro 18:6 A fool's lips enter into contention, and his mouth calleth for strokesro 20:3 It is an honour for a man to cease from strife: but every fool will be meddling. Pro 29:20 Seest thou a man that is hasty in his words? there is more hope of a fool than of him. Pro 9:7 He that reproveth a scorner getteth to himself shame: and he that rebuketh a wicked man getteth himself a blot.om 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Rom 13:5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. Rom 13:6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. Rom 13:7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
To Anonymous Feb 15 4:37 Check the first page of your KJV. It also has a copyright on it, including the no part of this publication may be reproduced ect. If you have been told otherwise, you just need to open the Bible to see it. All printed materials have the same info in them, including all Bibles and yes that includes the KJV.
Tiff - I'm not being rude here, I just asked for one verse supporting your 7 year trib theory. I don't already have my mind made up...that would make me unteachable. I'm always up for opening the bible and learning what God has to say.Keep in mind that what we've been taught growing up isn't always what lines up with the bible.Just one verse...that's all I ask for.
To Tiff,You said:"You cannot teach someone who does not want to hear what you have to say in the first place. As i can speak from experience, you can voice your opinion when asked, but you are just wasting your breath and your time by giving it because they have already made up their minds in what they want to believe."It is apparent, you are still inside the "Box" looking out, but if you look close you'll SEE there are no windows. I don't expect anyone from PV to understand an outsiders point-of-view. But, I was once inside that "box" too, and now I SEE very clearly. You also, along with other PV'ers, have already made up your minds about those of us who so diligently protest against Your so-called "Man of God", But have you ever asked yourself, "why are these people so wounded and angry?" Not everything that spues from MS's mouth is the gospel truth. I know it's difficult for you but, I WISH you could see that! He only tells you what HE wants you to know. ...Hitler said it well and knew what he was talking about when he said: "If you tell a lie often enough and loud enough, the people will believe it." Could it just be that MAYBE you are the ones believing the lie that he indeed is not the man he portrays himself to be? I mean, how well do you really know anyone? Think about it. You'll go cross-eyed if you don't start looking past the end of your own nose.
Hitler?! And if you are so wounded and angry then, please, tell us what is not the "gospel truth". Everyone blabs on and on but never gives any facts with the excuse that their "stories" are just too painful. How do you know that he isn't "the man he portrays himself to be?" Have you spent such an amount of time with him personally that you know this for a fact? You should get to know someone before you liken them to Hitler. Perhaps people can get so disgruntled they are the ones not seeing straight.
I can appreciate the Bartz and Friesen posts so far. Here we have another story filled with many hurts and suffering at the leading of their own family member. If any of you are looking for a story that could confirm your doubts and fears about PVBC; these would be excellent people to talk to.It is vital to realize that Pastor Sullivant has given a man the position of associate pastor, that man being Jeff Friesen. This type of position would not be given to anyone but a true follower of his own ways. (a protege and 'yes man' to beat all) Friesen's family has suffered for years from his prideful tyranny and judgment. As well, I believe another young girl posted of her monsterous confrontations with Friesen. If we all want to know what the future of PVBC will be we can look to the wounds of the Friesen's by their very own. They endure constant yelling, pressuring, and threatening of family members that do not conform to his will, or seem to threaten the power of his church. He promotes nothing short of division in the family.Some of his family have already posted here in support of Laura because thay have experienced the hateful, controlling spirit first hand from their own family member and can sympathize at how unjustly Laura was dealt her "fate" from so called loving family members.B.
Anonymous a.k.a. John Bennett...why don't you just give people the link to your great Bible study truths, such as the 7 year tribulation not existing...spare us all the witty remarks and run around.
Tiff is an example of yet another person with a bunch of head facts, bottled cliches and little actual wisdom. Do you not have a father or a husband, or someone in authority over you who should be taking on the Laura vs. M. Sullivant dispute? Or do you like having your own voice? Do you like being heard? Reminds me of another girl I know.
There are many good reasons why people don't give all the facts, 7:06am. The first one that comes to mind is maybe they don't feel like being identified and slaughtered the way Laura has been. Maybe other parties are involved and people don't want to use this platform to go into all the details. Maybe they have families and children and don't want them to feel the hate and slander if they come out. Maybe they realize that nothing they say or do will convince people like yourself to see things from two aspects and not just one.
Let get one thing straight. I have never suffered from tyranny. I love all my family, I am thankful for them and wouldn't trade them in for the world.Sure some of us have a different opinion on several issues, this in no way makes me a victim.We endure constant yelling , pressuring, and threatening????? Give me a break.Whoever you are "B" please don't talk about things you don't know, rumours you hear may be just that.I believe I am the only Friesen (from Winkler)who has posted on this BLOG. I in no way supported either side. Simply recognized that I think this is a poor forum for the discussion. I since asked Laura to remove the post, simply because this is not my battle, and I don't want my words used against me and my family in the future. I know Tabitha made a post supporting Laura, which is fine by me. I love her and Tim no less. I don't think poorly of laura, she was awsome before she left and still is.Jeff is doing what he feels is God's will in his life. Who is anyone but God and Jeff himself to judge if that's the case. I know Jeff and I have different views, but what matters most is we both know Jesus died for our Sins and is our Salvation. Sure our family has had issues in the past, some revolving around our belief's. But at the end of the day all can be forgiven and life goes on.If you really feel victimized by the church then leave, don't cry about it. I'm sick of hearing the whining. If its broke fix it, if you can't then move on.BTW, if anyone wants to phone me and ask for advice, the only advice you will get from me is " Give your head a shake and follow Gods will for YOUR life. Quit worrying about everyone else."
Well said Tom. No one is going to make me a victim. What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger. Stand back world.Debbie
I think the difficulty comes when the church has a hold on family members and then encourages those family members to shun those that HAVE left. At least some of the hurt people that are posting on here, are doing so because they want to have fellowship with their family members once again. And being quiet was not helping.Unfortunately, it is not always as easy as just leaving and having nothing to do with the place again, especially when it means, in essence, losing family members.
The difficulty is when family members leave a church and want nothing to do with it but it is still a part of their other family members lives. Will they refuse to attend their baptisms, weddings, funerals etc...just because they go to PVBC? The shunning can go both ways. I persoanlly love my church (pvbc) and never make family feel bad yet they accuse me of being brainwashed, and make fun of my standards. They are the ones dogmatic against my church. I do everything to be loving and they refuse to be a part of mine or my childrens important events.
to anonymous Feb 18 12:15,What reason does your family give you for being against your church?
Sometimes people leave the basic fundamentals and seek new avenues of doctrine. To each their own. Anyone can pursue any doctrine that they wish. However, God does not promote the idea of accept everyone everywhere all the time because they are family. Please note the following: Tit 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; There is no differential in this verse as to whether or not this person taken with heresy is a blood relative or not. Often the preacher gets blamed for separating families when God commands Believers in certain situations to not fellowship. If God said it than why is that so hard to grasp? BTW, we do live in the age of Grace and no, going to church on Sundays does not cause you to receive the mark of the beast.Also consider the following: Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 2Th 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. 2Th 3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. A Christian is not perfect... he is forgiven.
Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. that is exactly what PMS is doing and has done in the past "cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned" and we are MARKING HIM.
How could "ye have learned" doctrine when the only thing you apparently have time for is preacher bashing and attempted character assassination? How many souls have you lead to the Lord?
to Anonymous said...February 19, 2011 11:58 AMLets see how we all stack up!2Co 11:20 For ye suffer, if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take of you, if a man exalt himself, if a man smite you on the face. 2Co 11:21 I speak as concerning reproach, as though we had been weak. Howbeit whereinsoever any is bold, (I speak foolishly,) I am bold also. 2Co 11:22 Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I. 2Co 11:23 Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft. 2Co 11:24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. 2Co 11:25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep; 2Co 11:26 In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; 2Co 11:27 In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness. 2Co 11:28 Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches. 2Co 11:29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not?
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