Monday, February 7, 2011

!!! ATTENTION !!! (REVISED)

I realize that I said that I would not be deleting comments....HOWEVER!

I WILL be deleting any and ALL ridiculous comments that do not at all pertain to the content of this blog.

This does NOT help the cause of Christ.

REVISION***

Due to constant harassment ( aka,JASPER, ex-mennonite,etc)  I have been forced to approve all incoming comments.

125 comments:

  1. Thanks! May the truth march on.

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  2. Let's keep on topic:

    1. Slander a preacher of the Gospel

    2. Slander the members of a church

    3. Tell other teenagers that they should disobey their parents.

    4. Give the lost a reason to never come to the saving knowledge of our LORD and Saviour.

    5. Tell everone that rebellion is the only way to find Freedom in Christ

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  3. Laura, could you point out the comments that ARE helping the cause of Christ?

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  4. SLANDER IS UNTRUE! look it up in the dictionary!

    what we say can be proven! why would we lie???

    so many people telling their stories have SO MUCH TO LOSE, STILL! but they are standing up for the truth in hope to help others stuck in bondage. even loved ones stuck there... we love Christ and HATE evil.

    For those who say "what about the unsaved" the unsaved know we are not perfect, this blog only shows our humanity and dependence on a savior who washes us white as snow. the unsaved need to know we don't sweep sin under a rug to "save face".

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  5. It helped about as much as your blog did!!!

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  6. Just a quick note in response to: February 7, 2011 11:49 AM or others who may have issues with telling it (aka the truth) like it is.
    Matthew 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of deadmen's bones, and of all uncleanness.

    Pretty sure there was no pussyfooting around. Why should we as Christians pussyfoot around the truth?

    Feel free to read all of Matthew 23:)

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  7. Another quick note in response to: February 7, 2011 1:15 PM or others who may have issues with telling it (aka the truth) like it is.

    Where in the Bible do you see where it says with forgiving comes forgetting? I feel the need to give you an example to help bring you to reality? Lets suppose a mother walked into a room to find a man that she had over to her house molesting her little girl. I wonder how soon she would forget and let the man back in her house? I'm fairly certain that God gave us a memory for a reason so that maybe we don't make mistakes over and over again.

    Also, isn't it the parents job to train and nurture their children in such a way that before they ever become of age that they are mature enough to make decisions that they are willing to except the consequences to?

    Just a thought... when God impresses something on our hearts as His children and we choose to go another path, does he then pray and wish that we would die? Also doesn't God allow us as His children to make our own choices, mistakes etc. and still hold us close? Sometimes its necessary for parents to let their children do what they choose and if it happens to be a mistake then so be it. God gave us free will... what a concept... yes there are consequences for making a wrong choice but at least he's not trying to force his ideal choice for us down our throats. We should follow in His example.

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  8. Good for you, Laura. The comments were getting ugly and causing a huge distraction to what you were trying to do here.

    Keep this blog about you and what you have been through.

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  9. I don't have a problem with hearing the truth or telling it like it is!My problem is, is this the truth? They are a lot of accusations being made on this blog, and extremely rude, and ungodly comments about PMS, and the PVBC. Before you point your gun, you better make for darn sure that you are right, before you start shooting off your mouths. Otherwise you are just as guilty, for lying, gossiping, tearing families apart and spreading scandalice rumors, that are seriously damaging a lot people's lives here.
    I'm sure MS isn't totally innocent, but he is only human.
    This blog in no way brings glory to God. There is no love in here or forgiveness. The only thing I have seen is bitterness, hateful remarks, and revenge.

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  10. I was the anonymous poster in response to you twice. I attended PVBC for years and have had personal situations involving me & PVBC & MS where I can speak the truth with no gossip, lying, or any other words you chose.

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  11. ok then what is it that MS has done to you and everyone else, that makes you all so angry? And Is it not forgivable? The honest truth, please. Without hateful words.

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  12. I don't think many of you understand. Just because someone speaks the truth, it doesn't mean they don't love/care for someone. It is just the truth. I know there are alot of people that are very hurt from what has/will happen to them at PVBC and I'm sorry for all those that have/will be hurt.

    I commend Laura for being able to pray for someone after being hurt so. I've been there and I know how hard it is. But it does get easier each and everytime you pray.

    Do you think anyone making these comments want to be hurt? I don't think so. Some have been born into it, some their parents have taken them there. Some chose to go there. And I am so sorry that people have to hurt because they want to learn about God and his free gift for all of us. I do not hate anyone, not even PMS, but I do cry tears for all of them. I know how hard things can seem at this point for all those involved.

    But things have to change. As christians we are too be humble, not boastful. We are to love not hate. We are not to be condemning, but caring. We are not to be anyone stumbling block but help carry them through.

    How do we get through to the leaders at PVBC to let them know things have to change? If you tell them, you will be pruned, if you question, you will be disciplined.

    Laura I can understand your hurt, but know that it is okay to be the black sheep sometimes and I know God knows your heart. Be wise as a serpent, but gentle as a dove.

    Love you always through Christ,

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  13. The only hate is coming from the people who comment. Don't take away from Laura's story, you guys! Take your fight outside.

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  14. Not forgivable? I've seen many testimonial posts stating they've forgiven. Doesn't mean we don't need to expose a black sheep.

    And per your question, MS has lied WAY to many times to count, he has destroyed and broken up our families, he's prayed death over some, advised families to have funerals for their alive children simply because they had a mind of their own (keep in mind, this person is over 18)

    There is much much more. More proof is coming out within the coming days/weeks.
    And why...WHY must you ask a question you don't really want the answer to?
    You have chosen your side, why are you even here? So that you'll have something to gossip about on Wednesday evening?
    Something to 'share' with your friends..."oh dear me, have you SEEN the blog? my oh my"

    We as Christians need to HATE sin. Liars will have their part in the lake of fire.

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  15. It is my opinion that there should be no problem with Laura telling her side of the story. MS has. Isn't it only just to at least hear the matter before casting your... whatever it is you think you have to offer.

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  16. All I wanted to know is if these things are the truth or are they lies, and rumors? That's all.

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  17. Anonymous 8:26pm - If your being straight up right now, then think about it this way.

    Over the last 22 years, people have accumulated most who have never met before that all say the SAME thing.
    What does that tell you?

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  18. ** Anonymous 8:23PM --- not 8:26pm.

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  19. You don't like it when I sob over my poor chickens but you sure have no problem misquoting me when it works to your selfish agenda... lame. You people need to grow up.

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  20. just so you know 10:34 my time was 8:34 blog time.

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  21. Bill - here is a wild idea... speak in terms that others understand... maybe don't use animals to speak what's on your mind.
    What Laura takes off is spam. She leaves anything positive or negative that actually has at least once ounce of relevance.

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  22. the funny thing is you are proving yourself wrong >February 7, 2011 8:47 PM and everyone can see that.

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  23. Someones inability to accurately quote what I say has zero relevance, you guys are all about "truth this" and "truth that"-- Bologna. As for the chickens- that was just a clever way of getting you all to quit your bickering for a while. Here is a wild idea for you, log off and go find a lost soul and tell them about Christ. Imagine that.

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  24. If that were so, explain why comments from her siblings who are clearly in accordance to PMS (their dad) why they're still visible to the general public?

    If you'd only look, you'd see both sides represented. Any farm animal spam (horses & chickens) get removed because they have no relevance. Everybody here knows that.

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  25. One honest question. Why didn't you just stay on Facebook and tell your story to your friends there. Why start something new here for all the world to see, or was that the point?

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  26. Laurayou said that the comments about Chickens don't help the cause of Christ, how does this blog in any way help the cause of Christ?

    Answer that publicly with scripture (used in context)before you go on in you slander.

    Yes it is slander because it can't be proven with any hard evidence. (and I can prove that)
    Yes that right the only thing you are trying to prove is that you should have gitten your own way.

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  27. You know what guys, I questions to ask yourself. One day when you start using your own resources, meaning your own brain, and you become the latest hurt of the PVBC where will you turn. Do you know what you are defending? Doesn't everyone has a right to speak their own Opinion. And yes why are you on here talking about chickens when you could be saving souls. You're one to judge aren't you.

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  28. people need to know the truth, especially the people who would never add her as friends on fb.

    Laura was taking off the irrelevant comments because that was turning people away from the blog which was your purpose, was it not?

    Everyone with a brain can see what your doing, "I wonder how many posts have been conveniently deleted?" seriously? you're making a fool of yourself... again.

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  29. How about you get off the computer Bill since you offer no intelligent debate and help your wife with your 3 children. Family should come first not your blind loyalty to PMS.

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  30. work in progress

    I wish that all the laura supporters could hear themselves.

    "pms is a bad man, he hert my feelings....... the people of the PVBC are bad people they hurt my feeling..... I did'nt get my way as a kid....my parents are bad people....the world needs to see everyones passed sins..."

    This is not Holy this is fleshly and devilish.

    The world needs to see that Christ will take away their sin and remember them no more.

    It saddens my heart to see so many people in their quest for TRUTH just become bottom feeders, giving their souls up to a reprobate mind calling evil good and good evil.

    This has never been about Truth.

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  31. it will be because of you Bill that many will see and actually have seen the truth. because of your actions 1 family has already left PVBC.
    keep up the good work! you are proving our point singlehandedly.

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  32. Anonymous February 7, 2011 9:26 PM

    So the good work that you talk about is that families are leaving their Church.

    Shame on you.

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  33. 1 point for making fun of peoples pain. These are people who have been betrayed by someone they thought was a man of God. Harold & Christine Elias attended PVBC for 18 years, Blainer admitted for attending 10 years, The deacons Vic & Helen Elias attended 17 years, what about John Bennett? those are a few of many who have no reason to lie.

    What does PMS have to lose? EVERYTHING! and there in lies your motivation for all his deeds.

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  34. All of you people flinging sand in each others eyes - grow up! Try speaking like rational adults instead of like hysterical 12 year olds. How can one person sharing a part of her life story foster so much venom? Even if you disagree with her, it gives you no right to call her a liar and all but condemn her to hell. I repeat - grow up.

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  35. and who is this family that I ruined? Lets be specific and we won't mention chickens lest otherwise this post should be removed

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  36. When we hear about converts for Christ coming out of PVB Church, is this Bill a typical example? Something doesn't seem to measure up here.

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  37. Where are they now? in Winnipeg going to seminars? Never!

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  38. who said you ruined a family? it was because of your actions that they left the church, thats not ruining a family, thats helping them see what PVBC is all about.

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  39. keep em coming anonymous, you sure are a brave little piglet with no face to your big words

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  40. Why do any comments about PVBC and the leadership there stay up? If this is about Laura and not tearing down others, then why leave those up? good comments or bad? According to the story and what Laura has said it has as much relevance as chickens and horses.

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  41. Bill is a typical example of the people PMS surrounds himself with, the type he makes deacons and they type he makes assistant pastors.

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  42. Chicken... yes you

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  43. Well if she wasn't lying we would not call her a liar! I think that should answer you 9:36 poster

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  44. work in progress

    So the whole purpose of this is to destroy a man that Laura says she has forgiven.

    Are all the people that week?
    Are you few people the only ones that have truth?

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  45. here i am at the end of the day disappointed with the anonymous person who decided to insult me publically, just cause i wanted to clear my family of any involvement here or in whatever that proof post was referring to. just couldn't pick up the phone and talk to me. and i still after 24hrs don't have the proof promised that was also eluded to in the same post. all im here for is to clear any involvement that has been refereed as i said before not fighting with anyone. ph# 362-2907 still the same if that person wants to step up i just want a verbal apoligy for something uncalled for. thanks Jason

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  46. there is by far more common sense in talking to chickens than there is in attempting to find truth and continuity of thought here

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  47. Let's keep on topic:

    1. Slander a preacher of the Gospel

    2. Slander the members of a church

    3. Tell other teenagers that they should disobey their parents.

    4. Give the lost a reason to never come to the saving knowledge of our LORD and Saviour.

    5. Tell everone that rebellion is the only way to find Freedom in Christ

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  48. I think its sort of funny because we've only scratched the surface... the blogging has only begun, the actual proof (emails, personal testimonies - how many of those will you need to hear to believe?, etc) has barely come to light.

    destroy PMS? Revenge is the Lord's. The consequences of his actions are finally bearing fruit. you reap what you sow.

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  49. so who made All of the Laura supporters god?

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  50. So Laura When did you get saved?

    Could you tell us your testimony? who led you to the LORD? ect.

    That should be your next post.

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  51. After 23 years don't you think that if there was any wrong doing on the part of leadership that legal action would have taken place? If he is such a "bad" man you can hear him on sermon audio and compare Scripture with Scripture.

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  52. Great sermons can be heard on www.sermonaudio.com under Pembina Valley Baptist Church.

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  53. PMS has the best lawyer in Manitoba. He also is a very smart man, makes sure his bases are covered. There are people who have proof (besides the oodles of people with personal experiences), I'm guessing they will wait to show this proof until the timing is perfect, until then, it protects them and their family.

    How long did it take for Jack Hyles to be found out?

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  54. so if all of you are free what are you scared of?

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  55. Pastor Sullivant took the time to show me from the bible my need of salvation. I accepted Christ as my personal Savior!

    What did I have to offer to him or the church? Nothing! No money, No status. Just a young man full of sin! Praise the Lord that the church accepted me just as I was, a babe in Christ.

    It's because of the teaching shown from the bible, that I have heard over the years, I have grown closer to the Lord. I have seen my children accept Christ as thier personal Savior and grow closer to the Lord as well!

    If Pastor Sullivant had not taken the time to show me of my need of salvation, would anyone else have? No one did before!

    I thank God for Pastor Sullivant and the Pembina Valley Baptist Church.

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  56. Jack Hyles was lied about to

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  57. Pastor Sullivant did not ruin people's lives. that was their own choice. As for those who have attended Pembina for years and were suddenly shunned, they brought that upon themselves. But let me say that backsliding(which is what has happened, nothing more, nothing less) does not come suddenly. Its little by little, step by step, until you have given so much ground to the devil that your heart becomes calloused to the Holy Spirit of God and no longer hear his pleas to return to Him.I pray someday that you all will see the real truth( God's Word)
    Eph 5:1-12 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
    And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
    But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
    Neither filthiness, NOR FOOLISH TALKING, NOR JESTING, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
    For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
    Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
    Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
    For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
    (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
    Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
    And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
    For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
    But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
    Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
    See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
    Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

    Its a shame that it has come to this. Good people that I know just got so tossed about with every wind of doctrine that they've ended up taking the sides that please them and suit their needs. I'm broken for you and praying for you all.

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  58. 2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
    2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
    2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
    2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
    2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
    2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
    2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
    2Ti 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
    2Ti 3:9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
    2Ti 3:10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
    2Ti 3:11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
    2Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

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  59. Please everyone give your testimony

    This is the only way for Christ to get the glory

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  60. Rebecca "Elias" HarderFebruary 8, 2011 at 12:36 AM

    For many years there were many similarities to my dad and PMS. Thankfully my dad has a mind of his own, he did NOT shun my sister Chantelle (like PMS advised him to) when she was 18 and married a man he did not approve of.

    For many, many years he was under PMS's influence and acted a lot like him, making us go to PVBC.

    There were circumstances out of his control that let my 2 sisters (Aline & Kate) leave PVBC before they were 18.

    Since my parents have left the church they have changed a lot for the better. Their leaving PVBC was a long time coming and I am so greatful that they are not under that bondage anymore. I also hurt for them and what they are going through, losing most of the people they called friends...

    Our family is hurting and we are so very thankful for everyone's support and prayers through this time.

    Rebecca "Elias" Harder

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  61. To all of you people that are bickering, be you current, past, or never were a member of PVBC, please do me one favor. Get up from your chair and go get a mirror....go on...I'm waiting...ok now that you are back, place that mirror square in front of your face. Now take a deep look into your own eyes.

    Was it a pretty sight? I think likely not, as the vast majority of what is going on here is rather ugly from all sides.

    PVBC members
    What you guys are doing here is nothing more than fanning the flames of hate, do yourselves and your church a favor and stop posting.

    PVBC ex/non members
    You guys need to go open your own closets and see what you find there. Now how would you all feel if each and everyone of those skeletons started their own blog about the wrongs done to them by you?

    I was a PVBC member that faithfully attended for a number of years, I found my own reasons for leaving the church. But I do not see the need to publicize my PERSONAL reasons/rationals/opinions about that.

    Now there is a law in Canada that states that we have a freedom of religion. Those that attend that church or any other are free to do so under the law. Also people that leave that church or any other are also free to do so under that same letter of law.

    And yes Pastor Mike has been allowed to say his side, and so should Laura say hers. But frankly this is not the format/forum it should have been done in. As if there is anything constructive coming from this, there is far more wreckage in its wake.

    I have read a few good posts on here, but I fear that most people are going to miss them being mixed up in all the garbage posts.

    I think that all parties posting on here need to really start taking a deep breath and counting to 10 and delve into some serious thought about what they are posting before they actually start hammering on the keys. I myself thought about how I was going to post this for the last three days (on and off of course).

    Again to both parties watch what you back up before you do it. What you are backing up on here is words, and we all as sinners, have dirty foul mouths.

    Of course I am not claiming in the least that I am perfect, because I am but a human, and to be human is to err.

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  62. Jesus said that in order to be a leader you had to first learn how to serve others.

    He said, "You know that in this world kings are tyrants, and officials lord it over the people beneath them. But among you it should be quite different. Whoever wants to be a leader among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be the slave of all. For even I, the Son of Man, came here not to be served but to serve others, and to give my life as a ransom for many.”

    "I don’t know what your destiny will be, but one thing I do know. The only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve." ~ Albert Schweitzer

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  63. The vibes I get from some of these posts are that there are certain individuals that have had issues with their own fathers and have adopted PMS as their new father and are not willing to admit that their new father is a worse abuser than their biological father.Jesus Christ is the only one that will not let us down.

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  64. john and heather dyckFebruary 8, 2011 at 11:28 AM

    i believe laura is doing her best to remove babble that has no bearing on the conversation she desires everyone to be having. namely Godly conversation. i believe she is being wise in removing "babble" that does not promote what she has said from the beginning is about the "truth". it is her God given responsibility to do so and i commend you Laura for that, and God is the only one that Laura has (and should) be accountable to.

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  65. so 36hrs now, either produce the email you promised me anonymous poster or apologize for adding my family name to this blog. and to the other one who called me out im still waiting to hear from you too. obviously you know who i am i have not said anything about you so i still want an apology. thanks
    Jason

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  66. look at your post, now look at mine, now back at your, now back to mine, your post could be mine but you choose to tell no truth, now look at yours, delete it and repost mine

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  67. Christ made himself of no reputation

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  68. Laura,

    this is your blog,and you have control of its contents. you are not morally or ethically obligated to post every comment. When I saw one of your posts had comments approaching 200, I expected you to revise your comment policy. It's ok.

    I've read your previous posts, that you were paying your own way through college by working for the church. Were you legally an adult at that time, or were you still a minor?

    If you were legally an adult, you might have a case for false imprisonment or kidnapping against your parents. I am not a lawyer, nor am I Canadian, but there is a possibilty that what your parents did to you was, in fact, illegal. You might want to contact an attorney for a professional opinion.

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  69. Children of CBBC staff dont pay tuition as long as they are not married.

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  70. When Laura finished High School she quit her evening job, and took the janitor job at the church so she could go to school in the evenings.

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  71. Laura,

    How did your little brother stay asleep on the couch when your dad was yelling at you?

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  72. Anonymous 11:51am -- You'd be amazed what kids sleep through.

    Kids sleep through all sorts of noise - especially kids from large families.

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  73. So nice to see that you have stopped deleting posts!!!!!

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  74. john and heather dyckFebruary 8, 2011 at 2:43 PM

    ALL I CAN SAY IS "HOW JUVENILE........."

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  75. and this blog isn't!!

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  76. I believe that this whole thing could be expedietly resolved if those who were deacons at the time would step forward and admit their involvement.There is no need that more people lose faith,the body of Christ would be well served.The longer you hide your sin the harder it is to repent.

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  77. In response to February 8, 2011 12:48 PM

    There would be a much easier way for this to all be resolved. Laura would simply have to implement no anonymous posting. Like actually having to create an account here to post.

    People love hiding behind anonimity, just like I am doing right now. Put some accountability back on to the posters and I bet 3/4 of the posts would just stop happening.

    Just because people don't know who you are, the big man upstairs sure knows about every keystroke your little fingers have made. And just like a lot of people are saying Pastor Mike will have his day of judgement, so too shall all of you.

    So please if you do want to continue to post your ignorant and errogant comments please at least grow a pair and put your name on it.

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  78. Another idea, Laura, would be to enable comment moderation on your settings. That way you would have to okay the comments before they appear on the blog. I'm thinking that would get rid of this foolishness, and keep the comments more centered around your story.

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  79. Ok i will put my name to this name is JASPER!!!!!!

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  80. I thought that the "Elias's" left the church to become Seventh Day Adventists? Some left because little things bothered them and they never went to anyone in the church to talk about them, but instead let them build up until finally it took control of their lives and than they turned against the church.

    As for the people who keep saying they have evidence... well all I've seen are words, and no one knows for sure if they are the truth or not. How about creating your own blog and actually posting some hard evidence instead of just talking big and saying you have evidence. As for people commenting about the anonymous people being chicken...well we're not all pvbc church members that are posting anonymous now are we? the person posting stuff about Jason Hiebert's family must be a chicken himself because he has not even taken Jason up on his offer to contact him with his "so called evidence"! Perhaps all you Laura followers should take your own advice when advising people to not be cowards!
    And if Laura takes the advice of others and puts "controls" to this posting thing...it's obvious that she would choose only her followers posts to keep on here and not that of the other side. I don't think that's a good idea. After all we all have the right to an opinion.

    A.S

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  81. To "A.S.": We were just trying to get rid of the chicken who seemed to be floundering around uncontrollably with his head chopped off. It was obvious he didn't seem to have the capacity of respecting the parameters of this blog.

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  82. To set the record straight, there are no Seventh Day Adventists in my family (Elias')

    Attending a seminar in a denominational building does not mean that you adhere to, nor does it make you a member of that denomination.

    My family and I left because there were leadership and doctrinal issues.

    My Dad realized that PMS is no longer a truth seeker. Their leaving had nothing to do with Laura.

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  83. (KJV) Romans 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

    This is what's happening because of what's posted here.
    I pray that no one rejects God (Jesus) because of
    what is posted here.

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  84. To all who believe the 7th Day Adventist lies spread about the Elias family:

    I, Aline Elias will say this once. I am NOT, and neither is ANY of my family, a Seventh Day Adventist. We never have been. I will share with you all what I posted to my own Facebook on October 30, 2010 (around the time when PMS started telling others this lie)
    “Listen up local Baptists...Let me set a rumor to rest. None of my family are 'Seventh Day Adventists'. Memorize the following "I will check facts from the horses mouth before spewing lies to others." I say that with love ♥”

    Now read the above again. And again. And again, until you have it permanently ingrained in your oh so easily formed mind, that you SHOULD indeed confirm facts with the people involved.

    Around the time my family left the church, PMS was trying to put out SO many fires, that it’s no wonder he came up with such a lie as this.

    Anybody that from hereon continues to spread lies about why my family left the church will answer to God. I pity you on that day. Read your Bible and find out what God has to say about what liars will have a part of one day.

    A few reasons a lot of people/families have left, is that they, with a good conscience could no longer be a part of a church or church family filled with that many hypocrites, liars & abusers. People also saw the corruption of the leadership, both deacons & pastors.

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  85. I am not a 7th Day Adventist. Just because I attended a seminar in a Adventist Church, does not make me an Adventist.
    I have attended a service in a Catholic Church. Does that now mean I'm Catholic? Nope.
    To people out there who are "Denomination this, Denomination that." ..... There are Christians in every denomination.

    Katherine Elias

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  86. Well actually to clear P.M.Sullivant's name, he has never said anything about the Elias family or anyone else for that matter to the congregation. I heard it from someone else. And I didn't say that you were Seventh Day Adventists, I said I thought you left to become one. There's a difference there. The question mark at the end means it was a question not an accusation.

    Whether you believe me or not but I've never heard a single bad thing about you or anyone else that has left the church from the Pastor's mouth.

    My testimony:
    I grew up in a mennonite home with no clue to what salvation was. I had never even heard that word until my first marriage counselling session with Pastor and my fiance. Pastor explained salvation to me and without him I would have never been saved. I praise the Lord for this!
    Also, I went through what Pastor went through with his daughter all those years ago. I went to Pastor about it and he NEVER told me to plan a funeral for her, or to pray that God would end her life. Quite the contrary actually. He gave me very sound biblical advice and thanks to him my daughter is still at home with us and no longer wants to runaway. This is a testimony to the fact that he doesn't want to ruin families, or destroys them, but wants to help them as much as he can.
    A.S

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  87. Attn: A.S. regarding this comment you made, "Some left because little things bothered them and they never went to anyone in the church to talk about them, but instead let them build up until finally it took control of their lives and than they turned against the church."

    Stop pretending you know everything. You don't have the tiniest idea why people have decided to leave. And the gossip you listen to isn't the best source for truth. Are you God??? Are you a mind reader??? Are you in all places at all times and can see what everyone is doing and why they do it??? These types of generalizations are so common and you and everyone else who comes to these conclusions without any facts should be ashamed of yourselves.

    Bill Harder, do everyone including you and the church you attend a favor and stop typing. You sound like the village idiot and no one respects a thing you're saying.

    Laura, I think we've all seen enough and I'd like to encourage you to shut this down before it gets even more out of hand. What if something really bad happens as a result of this? Normal parents don't put their kids through what you went through, and normal children don't try to hurt their parents the way you are.

    I'm coming at this from a neutral standpoint, and all I feel coming from every direction is hate.

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  88. Well I do declare, I have never been so hurt as I am now... come on-

    "Due to the constant harrassment of Bill Harder( aka,JASPER, ex-mennonite,etc) I have been forced to approve all incoming comments."

    I would never ever consider myself or any of my alias's JASPER! Yuck. I knew someone named Jasper once and that is not how we roll. Please print a retraction and lets end the hurt.

    p.s. I'll trade you an apology for one alias that you haven't figured out yet

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  89. Dear Whoever s, I have noticed a few things. I do not know Laura or most of you but reading this certain things stand out. The opposition has called individuals against PMS or PVBC. Laura Followers, however from what I can read that is not so. They may have similar opinions and ideas, but it does not appear that they are members of the church or Laura. They seam to come from different churches different backgrounds and some ex members of PVBC for one reason or another. If you want to call them PMS or PVBC hatters that would be more appropriate as they do not attend the church or laura they just disagree with certain peoples beliefs. Also I noticed people are calling PMS, "pastor" or I am assuming that is who they are calling pastor since he is the only one mentioned. So I have come to the conclusion that you think he is the only pastor just as Jesus is the one and only true God. I have never been to a church where they just call their pastor "PASTOR" usually it is pastor mike, pastor Sam, pastor Jones, pastor Smith for thoughts who use last names and not. Also for thoughts who keep posting their names as Anonymous guess what GOD knows who you are you cant hide behind an IP address to him. If you don't feel that you have the guts or courage to post with you name then you probably shouldn't be posting anything anyways. So all you self righteous people who keep hiding behind a computer screen can deal with your words when you die. I consider it this way if you are to scared to post your actual name on this blog then you probably think you have no merit to actually be posting what you are and that God would look down upon it. Well I think I have said enough for now. May we not judge lest we be judged as well. Also in the end we will all have to answer for our sins. Once saved always saved and thru faith alone not of works. Remember you are guaranteed salvation if you accepted but that does not mean when you die you will not have to answer for your sins.

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  90. To Aline:
    You said "I will check facts from the horses mouth before spewing lies to others".

    Ok...
    Well, let's see you start with proving these "facts":

    "(around the time when PMS started telling others this lie)"

    Did you hear him say that? There seems to be at least one post here from someone that attends that church disputing your "fact"... (or can we then call it a LIE??)

    "it’s no wonder he came up with such a lie as this"
    Really? Prove that. Please. A lot of mouthy words, but no proof AT ALL.... If there's no proof, it's just another healthy LIE!!

    "A few reasons a lot of people/families have left, is that they, with a good conscience could no longer be a part of a church or church family filled with that many hypocrites, liars & abusers. People also saw the corruption of the leadership, both deacons & pastors"

    Woooo, that's going to be a tough one to prove. But again Aline, no proof = another LIE. It's begining to look like you yourself are the liar here....

    I keep seeing your posts (and your sisters I assume) on facebook, and now here - well, it sure looks to me like you want to create a lot of trouble. Sorry to say, but from reading your posts I don't see one single reason anywhere why anyone should believe anything you say.


    There are people on here who ask for proof. I have seen none. Some have attempted but failed, while others discretely walked around the challenge. I assume this is because there is no proof. You guys telling the stories - you sure whine a lot about your feelings being hurt. Grow up. Sounds like your all looking for something to blame your problems on. This blog is a disgrace to the internet! Let alone Jesus Christ! I agree with the guy who said this was never about forgiveness. +1. This looks like (and it's succeeding) just another attempt to stir the pot.

    And to you Anonymous person at the top there that said "Where in the Bible do you see where it says with forgiving comes forgetting?"

    Try This: Micah 7:19 - "He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea".

    Those sins would be pretty hard to remember about way down there under the sea...

    Maybe you should actually read that Bible instead of spouting off your mouth about what you think it doesn't say!

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  91. Good post "Nobody". There has been NO proof whatsoever for any of these things said in this whole blog. I find it quite hilarious. People love rumors, and the best way to keep spreading them is with NO evidence. LOL

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  92. I'm not the one that wrote that, but I agree that forgiving does not mean forgetting. The verses you are talking about are talking about God. He alone has the power to do anything, including forgetting our sins and not holding them against us anymore, if we are truly repentant.

    However, WE are human and do not have that capability. If someone hurts us, it is pretty much impossible to forget what they did even though we have forgiven them and released ourselves from that bondage. I'm sure you have been hurt in some way by someone at one point and I'm sure you still remember what they did, even though, hopefully, you have forgiven them?

    Healing from hurts takes time and forgiveness on our part will go a long way to healing; however forgetting is not always possible. We have a brain that remembers things. That doesn't mean we haven't chosen forgiveness though.

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  93. Bill Harder needs a life.
    Laura, God bless you. And everyone else, even you Bill.

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  94. Dear Anonymous,

    Forgiveness is quite achievable for us humans.
    1. Christ is our example and we are supposed to live as much like him as we can. So we should at least TRY to forget.
    2. Philippians 4:13 says "I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me". That verse is not a lie.
    3. Forgetting doesn't always mean literally forgetting to remember no more, but rather to never be brought up again. Laura knows how much something like this will hurt her folks (and their church), and yet, look at this blog! Doesn't even look like forgiveness has happened let alone forgetting.

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  95. Just to quote someone "Try This: Micah 7:19 - "He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea".

    Those sins would be pretty hard to remember about way down there under the sea..."

    So let me get this strait now you are a scholar and can interpet every part of the Bible for me. No where in that verse does it talk about forgetting their sins. What you said would be the same as me saying. This man who raped 12 13yr olds had cement blocks attatched to his feet and was droped into deepist parts of the ocean never to be seen or heard of again. However even if everyone else forgot about his crimes the 12 13yr olds probably wouldnt have and would require therapy for many many years to come. We are human we are fragil creatures we are not gods nor can we ever be. Let me ask you this have u forgotten every sin you have commited just because Jeusus has forgiven you? I bet know you could probably name a sin or two you have commited in your lifetime if not much more. I know for a fact I am not with out sin, But I am forgiven and saved by his grace. Also just because you havent seen proof doesnt mean that makes it a Lie. Police spend years and sometimes decades gathering evidence and proof to try someone in court. This being said someone who commites a murder is he not a murder just because the police have been unable to find evidence of his crimes? No he is still a murder and God might be the only one that knows his deeds but they are still known to him if no one else. Atheists use the excuse that this is no proof of God, However I am sure most of us would agree and believe that there is a God. However what physical evidence do u truely have to prove God exist and that your God is the one and only true God? I believe in God through Faith alone because I feel in my heart it is right not because someone tells me it is. Man is a fallible creature can you at lest admit that you might have been desived could you at lest admit that even a pastor of God can fall under sin. Can you at lest open your minds that this is a possibilty? I am not saying that PMS has fallen or has turned away I am just saying no where in the Bible does it state to follow someone blindly. The world is full of false profits and men who have turned their back on God for one reason or another. Greed, Power, Mental instability. Open your eyes investigate for yourself. Signs your pastor might be in it for other means. How many vehicals does he own, What kind of vehicles does he own, what is his salary, how big is his house, how much money does he spend a year and on what, does he have alot of fancy things, does he constantly go on vacation or "mission trips" that are actually vacations. Is his name on the church deed, Most churches I have been to have a group of elders and the churches have been around for awhile so pastors come and go and having one of their names on the deed insted of an organization would be detrimental to the church. These are just a few signs that your pastor may not be prearching for Gods glory anymore. Not saying PMS is like this or has done any of these things. You all as a congregation would have to check on that and it is part your duty as christians to keep your pastor on the right path because he is only human as well and can stray.

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  96. To Christopher Welch,

    How do you know I am not a scholar? How do you know that I haven't been given a gift of understanding God's Word?

    It's apparent that you did not actually read my post. Or at least it did not stick. You really went off the deep end in your last post. I'm sorry Chris, but I will not try to explain the concept of forgiveness to you any more than I have. If you didn't get it from my last post, this is not the place to debate it. The terrible rapist you talk about "This man who raped 12 13yr old's had cement blocks attatched to his feet and was droped into deepist parts of the ocean never to be seen or heard of again" he will be forgotten with time. Yes, the girls he raped will struggle with that for the rest of their lives. That is called "the consequences of your actions". You yourself don't always pay all the consequences for your own actions - sometimes others do. God never said it would be easy friend.
    Case in point - Laura's consequences in life are being paid for by her - and all the others she's hurt along the way. Every single part of her stories that went good or bad was - get this - her choice! Yes! That's right! She chose her path. She was not forced into anything. There is always a choice.

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  97. Ok...
    Well, let's see you start with proving these "facts":

    "(around the time when PMS started telling others this lie)"

    Did you hear him say that? There seems to be at least one post here from someone that attends that church disputing your "fact"... (or can we then call it a LIE??)How about creating your own blog and actually posting some hard evidence instead of just talking big and saying you have evidence. As for people commenting about the anonymous people being chicken...well we're not all pvbc church members that are posting anonymous now are we? the person posting stuff about Jason Hiebert's family must be a chicken himself because he has not even taken Jason up on his offer to contact him with his "so called evidence"! Perhaps all you Laura followers should take your own advice when advising people to not be cowards!"I don’t know what your destiny will be, but one thing I do know. The only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve." ~ Albert Schweitzer

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  98. I love how people keep using the term "Laura Followers" - none of us are following Laura. Some people here have never even MET Laura, and some, regardless of the situation don't even LIKE her.

    Our common denominator is we've all seen her father for the monster he is. There is no beauty in that beast.

    I bet that if PMS's wage along with every other baptist church in MB got evened out, regardless of the size of their congregation, how fast he'd be "called" somewhere else.

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  99. I always marvel when people bring up pastors wages...as if somehow pastoring means you are supposed to be beg and live megerly or else you aren't spiritual or humble. What's the cut off for wages fit for the humble?

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  100. Have you seen the numbers? A load of money goes through that church every year.

    For a pastor who preaches faith promise and give give give, even if you don't have enough $ to support your family or buy groceries, he sure is suffering. A lot.

    Never mind the $$ unaccounted for.

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  101. To Aline: People who know your family know you're not an Adventist. Clever rumor to whoever made it up. Pastor Sullivant preached several messages on Seventh Day Adventist and frantically ordered in books to scare the congregation.
    That alone "confirmed" this rumor in peoples minds. Quite pathetic. Seems our church is notorious for gossip & starting rumors. Sorry for that. Every comment & view from a PVBC member should encourage you. At least they're getting facts from the horses mouth. About time.
    A.F

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  102. What about if we took a survey of all the pastors in Winkler, MB and compared it to PMS's current salary. Then reset PMS's salary to the average pastor's salary in Winker MB. It makes my mind hurt to think of any possible scenario that PMS would ever agree to such a thing. I wounder how they would compare.
    Lets say that he never agreed to this idea, I must admit that I'm curious as to what Mike's current salary is.

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  103. If you want to talk about Pastor Sullivant being in it for the money, go take a picture of his house. The go take some pictures of Leon Fontaine's (Springs Church) couple of mansions and compare. Compare their salaries too! Insert some brain activity and you will see what it looks like to be "in it for the money".

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  104. His income is SIX figures. But, don't ask him about it in a church business meeting. He'll say it's none of your business and quickly move on.

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  105. To the anonymous wondering about the proper cut off wage for preachers.

    I believe the preacher shouldn't be above his people. He should be level with his people, and since the majority of the members at PVBC are AVERAGE wage earners, that is where the bar should be set for him. BUT, he has set the bar to the level according to the wages of the BUSINESS OWNERS.

    If he were brought down to an AVERAGE level maybe he would sympathize more with regular working class, and change his messages from "Shut up and be satified" to "Strive for better, God wants us ALL to have an ABUNDANT life."

    I'm all for the preacher taking a vaction, but 8 times a year is abit accessive.

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  106. I would like to know how you all know how much PMS makes since you do not go to the that church? Have you tried going into the church and asking how much he makes? Like come on would you like it if I were to ask you how much you made in front of 500 people? I know it is not six figures a year!! But you have to think about it he has ben a full time pastor for 22 years I know men in winkler that have had there jobs for les time then that and make more then him!

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  107. For information sake: there are many business owners and professionals in the congregation. Who are you posting that thinks you know the Pastors salary? Or the nature of all the trips he has been on? First of all, I know you have no discernment as it would be unethical to blab your church matters publically, or secondly, if you are not a member you know nothing.
    Saying he went on 8 vacations is ignorant and foolish talk.
    Are you a communist? Maybe everyone's wage should be set the same in order to avoid pride.

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  108. The "average" wage earner also works ONLY 40 hours a week. Drive past the church sometime and see how many times when you are going home from work, his truck is still sitting there, not to mention the visits he makes and mental strain from being in the ministry full time. As to his "vacations", except for one vacation with his family per year slipped in when there is time (and there have been years he did not take it), the rest of his outings are preaching at other places or missions trips where he ends up preaching as well and visiting missionaries. That sounds like a restful time. I don't know about you but flying to another place for a weekend and preaching half a dozen times and flying home doesn't seem like a vacation to me. I really don't care what he makes. He's worth every penny...and more.

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  109. What saith the Scriptures?February 11, 2011 at 7:49 PM

    1Ti 5:17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

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  110. For those commenting on Pastor Sullivant's wage, it is something set up by the church, not something he gives himself. As the Lord blesses the church, there is no reason to make him earn the same amount as everyone else does. He puts in a lot more hours than the average person. As for the faith promise and offerings, we are required by God to give tithes and offerings to the church.Malachi 3:8-10 And no the pastor and his deacons do not come collecting at your door either as it has been rumored around the area. The cruises that the Pastor and his wife have gone on were paid for by a love offering that the church took up for them. How many business trips a year do you take for work? Pastor preaching at conferences and other churches is doing the business of God! Oh and the Pastor's salary is included on the yearly budget they hand out in case you wanted to know. And dont you think that with all the missionaries they support there has to be a substanial amount of money that flows through the church every year?? At least they are trying to do something for the cause of Christ. Just saying

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  111. I agree wholeheartedly with many of the preceding comments. You can never pay a faithful, humble servant of God too much, even if many of his members are so cash-strapped from paying tithes and faith promise they can hardly feed their children.

    Let's face it, being a pastor is a hard job; all that running around and putting out fires you started, splitting up families, holding funerals for live people (imagine the cremation process!), exerting megalomaniacal control over the minutia of the church, etc. It just can't be done in 40 hours a week.

    Like the bible says, "Thou shalt not muzzle the ass while he grindeth the ax."

    Let God be true and every man a liar. Amen.

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  112. Well then, since you're all so enlightened and the church sets his wage, and it's no big secret. Please, share with us your overflowing fountain of knowledge as to his earnings with us. The people have a right to know.

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  113. "what saith the Scriptures" speaks the truth... perhaps letting God me true and every man a liar is not a bad way of doing business!

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  114. I can't i know what He makes for sure, because i have not been a member of PVBC for several years. And also because they do not list the Pastor's salary on a separate sheet of paper or heading. All the staff members salary are compiled.

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  115. No matter how hard pressed you are for cash, God should still come first. He will take care of His children if they are right with Him

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  116. blainor, you forgot the part about helping out a family whose dad is laying in Winnipeg all but dead, assembling help to go and dig his garden for his family and getting a crew of guys together to go and reclaim bricks for profit... (oh no, have we unearthed the fact that pastor cares enough to help a family in need?) my what big words you use grandma...

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  117. I agree with Blainer, and the only reason Mike Sullivant does all those so called nice things is to make himself look good! You can't hide behind an evil mask cause everyone will know the truth, but you can hide behind a "righteous" mask cause no one will know the real you!

    Blainer if you'd like to get together I'd be willing to listen to your side of the story. In fact I would thoroughly enjoy it. If you think this is possible let me know, and since today is Valentine's day, just address your post to valentine and I know you're answering my post.

    P.S. - no I'm not asking you to be my valentine or anything like that. it's an anonymous name i picked cause of the day it is today.

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  118. God should come first but i think the line has blurred between God and church, your personal relationship with God should always come first, then family, then church. Your relationships with your husband/wife & children should not suffer because of church, the church is there to help families grow and strengthen their relationship with God. Church is for fellowship & edification.

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  119. Hey Valentine,
    I`d say yes, just I suspect you live somewhere in southern MB, and I`m a hard day`s drive away.:)

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  120. Try reading 2 Cor.7,8

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  121. Little Miss Valentine, that wants to talk to Blaine...you not only want to hear his side of the story, you would also ENJOY it? Are you a Christian?

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  122. My dear Valentine, come Saturday morning... bring coffee and we'll share some stories. Nah, scrap that, I have to do my taxes! when do you wanna bring me some coffee so we can talk?

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  123. Hello anonymous who wants to have coffee. You let me know first who you are and we'll go from there. Right at this point I don't trust anyone! And Blainer, we have already communicated through email. Thanks for your story.

    Valentine

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  124. So sweet you folks are getting along:)

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